Q&A Series
Athlete #2: Caite Kappel
P2P Challenge: Grand Canyon Rim2Rim Run
Questions by Mike Mata (Director of Mental Performance)
Caite Kappel: Rim2Rim Run 2023
Mike: Talk to me about this challenge!
Caite: “Yeah, oh my gosh. It was amazing. It was part of a birthday trip, or an idea that kind of just came around. I'm always looking for the next thing, the next adventure (drive), you could say. But yeah, I wanted to plan a birthday trip and the idea came together… and then I just thought what better way to do it than to do this challenge and also try to raise money for Dawgpatch?”
Mike: Why this challenge and why now?
Caite: “It's a great question. Kind of like hitting a milestone birthday, I guess. And just wanting to do something new and experience something different. I've been doing a lot of racing. I race triathlons and run and do lots of swims and stuff like that… always kind of looking for the next level up... something that would be more challenging. I think it was probably the most challenging thing I've done physically. But yeah, just looking for that next challenge (mastery)… I have two little kids that are five and seven, and I've been a lifelong athlete. I played field hockey in college and I ran and I did a little racing and then I had my kids… So at that point, it just had gotten to more and more different things, especially like being outside, whether it's like open water swimming, racing, trail running, all of these things are just mentally so good for you when you're often inside working, when you're with your kids, you know, just being able to like have that too is just such a positive thing. It's been really helpful for me to find myself again after that and to be able to like to do these adventures (sense of self; gratitude).
Mike: What mental skill did you find most useful during this challenge? (i.e. Self talk, attentional flexibility, visualization)
Caite: “I think, for the rim to rim and just in general, like for my racing and even prior to racing and the sports before, it's always been about discipline and consistency for me. So even those days when you really don't want to get up early (I get up at four or five, that's my time to get in my training before work and before kids) and those days that you just aren't feeling good, you're tired or you're sore… If you just get up and do it and you're just consistent about it, it pays off in the end. And that's what I realized, like, yeah, I don't want to get up every day. Or you know, fit in however many days of training that week. But I just do it. My alarm goes off and I just get up. I don't even question it now. Of course, there's gonna be times when you're sick and things like that and you need to listen to your body, but now my alarm goes off and I get up. And visualization, I love that one too. I think that I use it for racing all the time, just trying to visualize every step of the race if I can, if I have any idea of what the course looks like.
Mike: Is there any self-talk phrase or mantra that you like to use like when you're in the moment?
Caite: Yes. They're not really that groundbreaking or earth shattering. Push hard, things like that. Just keep going… Like, you know, fucking do it… When we were out there in the canyon, we were out there for like eight hours plus. And there were definitely points along the way where we started to feel, “oh my god, we're not even all the way down the North Rim and we still have to go across the canyon and up the South Rim and our legs are already hurting…” But we felt like, “okay, what can we do?” (productive self-talk). Let's drink some electrolytes, take a gel, see how we're feeling, see what tools we have to use at this point that can make a big difference… “What can I do to try to make it a little bit better?” It's usually your brain holding you back, right? Like your body can probably keep going most times but your brain's just like thinking negatively or wanting to hold you back, you know? That’s when you do a quick reality check, like “what is going on in this moment?” (mindful moment)
Mike: What were the biggest hurdles along the way, both physically and mentally? How did you overcome them?
Caite: “One of the big things was logistics. This was a completely unsupported run, and you're going from one side of the Grand Canyon to the other. There's park services, but after October 15th they start to close all of that, so there was nowhere to stay. So we basically had to figure out how to get to the North Rim. We ended up getting a ride from St. George in Utah, and there was basically no support at that point. So it was just thinking through all those things, which added a whole layer, but it was kind of fun as well… It was definitely a mental challenge (challenge vs. threat reframe). That stuff can get in your head and throw you off, and there were honestly times when we were trying to plan it and we were like, “Is this too much? Should we just throw in the towel? Should we just do something easier? We'll just go on a surfing trip or something!” But the idea was there. And once we thought of the idea, I just couldn't let it go (fusion). And I didn't want to. And obviously, now I'm so glad that we didn't let the logistics get in the way. I think it's very similar to racing, right? Because something always, especially in triathlon, in any race, but something's bound to go wrong, right? You get a flat, you're racing in terrible conditions, and you have to figure out some way to pivot (resilience; psychological flexibility) and not let those sorts of things completely derail you… so I was really glad that we figured it out and didn't just throw in the towel and take a beach vacation or something.”
Mike: “Right there what you said is like a gold mine for mental performance work. Correct me if I'm off, but from what I'm hearing is that at that moment it was really easy to pivot. At that moment, there was what is called a “choice point” in psychology; going with the values-consistent choices. Within that choice point, you had dozens of things saying, “Hey, there's this other alternative, it'd be much more comfortable. Let's go with that.” Instead, you chose the less comfortable (embracing discomfort) route that moved you toward your values (health, growth, challenge, etc.) and fused you to the vision; a successful point-to-point challenge.”
Mike: What was most surprising or unexpected? What did this teach you?
Caite: “The terrain. From the North Rim, you descend about 8,000 feet. So you're going down on very rocky trails and it's steep. There are all these cutbacks that you're going down from the North Rim to get to the base of the canyon. So I don't think I fully appreciated just how tired my legs would be just from going down… You're a few miles in at that point and my legs were shaking so that was definitely on my mind, the thoughts that I was having then of “wow this is so tough on my legs,” and at that point you can't even see the south rim where you're going… so it was definitely a time when you needed to bring out the positive self-talk… Once you get to mile 18, between 18 and 20, I mean, it's so steep going up and your legs are already shot by that point. So yeah, I think physically it was really tough to keep going. But I mean, there's no way out… Unless you want to call the park rangers… You have to go, you have to make it out. So that was definitely the mantra we were using, “no other option.”
Mike: Who did you lean on for support during the ride and what did that look like?
Caite: “We (Dan and I) had trained together and he's a runner as well, so we'd train together and plan the trip together. When we started, we were so happy… Like kids in a candy shop happy that we had planned this trip… so happy that we made it there to the North Rim. All the things that could have gone wrong with the travel, the kids, the plan (commitment)... Once we started the run, we were just so insanely happy. We couldn't believe the beauty and it was so breathtaking, but then the pain starts to set in and we were pushing each other. We were like “we gotta keep pushing.” It was definitely a crazy, fun experience, the two of us out there.”
Mike: How did this expedition change your “why”? How did it change what is important to you?
Caite: “I still think I have the same why, which is wanting to push my limits and look for these new adventures (drive; committed-action). I'm really so happy to be involved with Dawgpatch because their mission is also personal in a way to me. I'm just happy that this could be for a greater cause, to bring attention to the mission of the Dawgpatch. I want to continue to raise awareness and be involved there. But yeah, I don't necessarily know that it changed anything, but maybe it just made me even more hungry for the next adventure. For me, I’m immediately thinking of the next thing, like what's next. And so that's just my mindset in life. It definitely is leaving me like “what's the next adventure?””
Mike: What did you learn from this expedition that you will carry forward, both in everyday life and sport related?
Caite: “Keep challenging yourself. Don't settle for the status quo. Don't settle for a beach vacation. Keep pushing…(growth-mindset). There's so much opportunity for the carry over to occur… I think it's really great for my kids to see their mom or both their parents setting a goal and accomplishing it. Having these physical goals and athletics in our lives makes it so they're like, “oh wait, I want to race now,” and they have interest in that. So I think it's just a really positive thing in that way. It’s like a message we send to them (modeling). Like, my dad ran marathons when I was growing up and I have so many memories of that. And I think it made a big impact on my life.”
Mike: After accomplishing such an extreme feat, where else do you feel you might be limiting yourself in terms of what else is possible?
Caite: “I've realized that I just want to keep pushing myself to do these new types of longer distance events and to keep finding things that challenge me. I feel that I could go more, that I could do more with the right feeling and the right training. There's definitely more there. So, yeah, it elevates your baseline almost. You're like, “okay, I did that, I feel I can do this,” (self-efficacy)... You do one race and you're like, “okay, I can do the next distance and then the next distance and then the next.” It just keeps building on itself... there's so much more potential that's there.”
Mike: “Sounds like the mastery curve (Leonard, 1991) going on in real time… that progression toward the next level, followed by the inevitable plateau there. Once you've achieved that rim to rim challenge, you hit that next mark and now you're on the plateau and within that plateau you're, you know, being a mom, but you're also planning ahead and keeping that fire lit (motivation) for what's next.
Mike: So, what’s next?
Caite: “More racing. I’ll be working and mothering, but hopefully a spring marathon, some triathlons, another half iron man. I’m working towards that full iron man, maybe an ultra, some Dawgpatch summer swims. I think longer, and more, endurance events. Still hashing out the 2024 calendar, but yeah, it's shaping up.”
Check out the full Grand Canyon Rim 2 Rim Run write-up here.
Athlete #1: Payton Dwight
P2P Challenge: Lisbon to the Black Sea
Title: “We loove climbin”
Questions by Mike Mata (Director of Mental Performance)
SPP topics explored: joy, motivation, mastery, mental skills, mantras, self-talk, resilience, self-efficacy, preparation, self-confidence, perspective, chunking tasks, controllables, visualization, present-moment-focus, beginner’s mind, openness, compassion, purpose, empathy, self-as-context.
Mike - Why this ride and why now?
Payton - “Yeah it was time, I mean, two years had passed since we did the US the last time, and I get very antsy you know, like after doing that first trip and realizing how epic that was and enjoying that experience I just want more and more of that (joy). And so like once a year is a good taste, and it had been two years, and I was feeling that itch (motivation) and it was just time to get back on the horse… and Europe was kinda the natural next calling I’d say. A lot of miles to zoom… just kind of another stepping stone as we continue to tag and bag all of the continents (mastery)… it was ripe, ripe for the picking.”
Mike - What mental skill did you find most useful during the ride? i.e. Self talk, focus, visualization, breathwork, discipline, overcoming obstacles, etc.
Payton - A big part of it was using some of the tools that we had built on the prior trip. We have this whole string of one line quotes (mantras) that we use, little maxim’s I would say, little truths… Drew would say “it’s not the truth it’s just a truth.” Stuff like “hesitate devastate,” “this too shall pass.” On a rainy day you’d say that to yourself. Just simple things you’d say to remind yourself (self-talk)… The first trip (US Trip 21’) I had a lot to learn for myself I would say… being exposed to that, we call it the ‘crackening’ like a bone being cracked, when it comes back, it comes back stronger. So there were a lot of situations where I had to embrace that and come back stronger (resilience). There were very difficult situations, but they weren’t stressful if that makes sense… I have the tools to solve them, I have the tools to get it done (self-efficacy). So I would rely on those lessons I’ve learned, those one-liners…there’s no option, you’re gonna get it done. What’re you gonna stop biking? That’s not an option, so you just gotta wake up and boom em’.
A few more one-liners off the top of my head “hesitate devastate,” if you start getting scared about that eighteen wheeler on your left or the pitbull barking on the right you’re gonna swerve and you’re gonna die… so if you hesitate, it’s trouble… if you start questioning your plans, if you start going “oh maybe I shouldn’t bike til after dark, maybe i shouldn’t go for this push, then you’re just gonna end up wasting time. You just gotta pick something and go with it. You gotta trust the process (preparation). You’ve been here before, you know what it’s like, you know what you’ve gotta do, get it done (self-confidence)… don’t leave anything on the table, because inevitably you’re gonna have those shitty days (perspective).
I’m a big fan of the cafe latte stop to recharge yourself. It’s a nice little treat to look forward to so a lot of times I try to go 30 miles without stopping, and then you reward yourself at that 30 miles with a cliff bar, with a coffee… then it’s like you close your eyes and you’ve done another 30 and you’ve drank another latte, and then you’re booming another 30… then all of a sudden you’re at 120 miles, you drink a latte, and you might do 10 more, and it’s getting a little dark… 10’s easy so why not do 10 more. Then you’re at 140…little increments (chunking tasks). You can reward yourself and have that under your belt… then all of the sudden you’re barking at the moon and you've got 140 down.
Mike - What were the biggest challenges along the way, both physically and mentally? How did you overcome them?
Payton - The hardest part was probably the weather (external; uncontrollable), I would say…yeah it was pretty shitty wind during the muck and mud, and you’re spinning 7 miles an hour, 6 miles an hour average and you start not breaking it down… you start thinking about okay you’ve gotta do 120 at 7 MPH… I’m out here for 13 hours today, you know? But then you just kinda gotta laugh, you gotta shrug it off and be like fuck it… I’m gonna be sitting at work in one month and I'm gonna be begging to be back out here (visualization), so you might as well enjoy the situation… you’re not gonna enjoy the sunny day of easy rotos if you don’t have to go through the shit a little bit, too (perspective).
Learn to love it (mantra). I remember I was in Georgia for my brother’s ranger school graduation and there was this husband and wife sitting next to me and the wife was kinda complaining about how muggy it was, and he looks over to her and says “hey listen, you gotta learn to love it,” and that really stuck with me because if you don’t learn to love it, you’re fucked. So learn to love that mud, chuckle to yourself, like, this is cool, I’m in Romania, I’m in Serbia, I’m in Bulgaria, and I’m biking through potholes, like… this is insane (present-moment-focus). I’m solo, I don’t know the language… I don’t know shit, but I’m gonna keep spinning. I’ve got canned tuna in the backpack, I’ve got a canned latte, I’m gonna pitch a tent; I’m gonna be good.
Mike - What was most surprising or unexpected about the ride? What did this teach you?
Payton - Nothing struck me as super unexpected. There’s a quote by Marcus Aurelius and it goes, “for a man to be surprised by anything is the fault of the man,” because he shouldn’t be surprised by anything, he should expect the unexpected, he should understand that there’s so many possibilities in life… but I suppose I didn’t know what to expect in some of those countries, because it goes back and there’s so much history… and in each country there’s a different way to sustain yourself that you get to learn and that’s pretty fun (beginner’s mind)… you get thrown into the world, and all you can do is just observe and, and kind of soak it in like a sponge (openness). These different experiences, these perspectives. And it's not that you need to do something with those perspectives, those experiences, but you can just cultivate an understanding of the world… it’ll affect your (compassion) for people, what’s important in life, and what you want to deliver to the world (purpose).
Mike - What’s the reaction you get when you tell people you accomplished a feat like that?
Payton - People get it or they don’t get it. If they never biked before, how could you understand what that means? If someone told me they climbed Mt. Everestt that’s dope, but I don’t know what it’s like to do that, I don’t know the prep work, I don’t know the feeling of that cold being drilled into your bones… there’s two layers to it, some people nod their head and you can see that they’re not processing it at all, and then there are some people who have done pretty hardcore stuff, like it may not be the same, right? Like for someone, if they told me they'd climb Mount Everest, I wouldn't be able to relate to that, but I could try to put myself in their shoes and try to understand (empathy), and, you know, kind of process and, and think about what that might be like. So some people do that, and it's really awesome.
Mike - How did this expedition change your “why” (or purpose)? How did it change what is important to you?
Payton - It feels good to be raising money and raising awareness for a purpose much bigger than yourself…if you’re in rehab you don’t get a day off, so I’m not gonna give myself a day off… in terms of purpose, it becomes your life's purpose in the moment, and I think that one of the most rewarding things about doing a trip like that, and it’s not a hyperbole, every single second has a meaning, has a purpose. Any second wasted is a second that I could be getting more than 6 hours of sleep. I’m either fixing the bike, riding the bike, routing, feeding myself, updating the GoFundMe, making a post… there’s not a single second that I can waste. And that’s super rewarding because you get to live the purpose, you’re in the moment, you’re very present.
Mike - How did you get going on the days where motivation was absent?
Payton - Nothing to it but to do it, you know? There’s only one way to answer that question, you gotta turn and burn… bike’s not gonna ride itself. If you give yourself no other option, then there is only one option… what am I gonna die? Or am I gonna pack this tent up, get on the hog, and start turning serious rotations… knock out 7, knock out 5, knock out 3, knock out 10… sippin’ a latte, then you only have 90 miles left on the day, that’s easy.
Mike - How did you work with the feeling of loneliness/boredom along this expedition?
Payton - You know, this last trip I really didn’t get bored, I mean I remember being slightly bored in prior trips, but I think that was due to discomfort that was the illusion of boredom. This time, the experience was so epic, there was no way I could be bored. And some of the things were so trying like that weather… yeah, it was a hoot. And loneliness, you know you spend your whole life with yourself so you better get comfortable (self-as-context). I think it was an awesome time to reflect and truly dive into who you are and build confidence in your decision making… you write the rules when you’re out there solo.
Mike - What would you say would be the main things you learned from this expedition that you'll carry forward?
Payton - I certainly built a lot of confidence in my ability, physically, mentally… over the course of doing these trips I've noticed in response to stressful situations that I certainly got a lot better at remaining calm. A lot of situations that maybe in the past I would've been nervous about, or jumpy about, there's a presence of calm that I've gained, which is really neat to see… And you know all the new perspectives they affect the way that you view things, what’s important in life, how you want to live your life, and just fun memories… it’s really good shit. Hard to articulate, you know?
Mike - What’s next?
Payton - Let’s see, I’ll see what Drew wants to do, he says he wants Mongolia, so I’m down for Mongolia. I think we’re gonna tag them all I would say. Mongolia would be epic, South America is gonna be up pretty soon… I really would like to do Japan, or Thailand as well.
Mike - What else is next?
Payton - A station in all 50 states, that would be good. We’re at 4 states and 11 fitness stations (at the time of this recording)... with something like this, I view the Dawgpatch as something so genuine, and you can’t rush something like that. Drew’s putting in the lord’s work in terms of keeping the ship running. So, there’s a lot to come… for now, these are the good times, going out to the stations yourself and putting them up, it’s a good thing… it’s very tangible.
Check out the 2023 Mental Health Tour: Lisbon to the Black Sea write up for a complete trip report and day to day breakdown.