Q&A Series #2 with Caite Kappel
Athlete #2: Caite Kappel
P2P Challenge: Grand Canyon Rim2Rim Run
Questions by Mike Mata (Director of Mental Performance)
Caite Kappel: Rim2Rim Run 2023
Mike: Talk to me about this challenge!
Caite: “Yeah, oh my gosh. It was amazing. It was part of a birthday trip, or an idea that kind of just came around. I'm always looking for the next thing, the next adventure (drive), you could say. But yeah, I wanted to plan a birthday trip and the idea came together… and then I just thought what better way to do it than to do this challenge and also try to raise money for Dawgpatch?”
Mike: Why this challenge and why now?
Caite: “It's a great question. Kind of like hitting a milestone birthday, I guess. And just wanting to do something new and experience something different. I've been doing a lot of racing. I race triathlons and run and do lots of swims and stuff like that… always kind of looking for the next level up... something that would be more challenging. I think it was probably the most challenging thing I've done physically. But yeah, just looking for that next challenge (mastery)… I have two little kids that are five and seven, and I've been a lifelong athlete. I played field hockey in college and I ran and I did a little racing and then I had my kids… So at that point, it just had gotten to more and more different things, especially like being outside, whether it's like open water swimming, racing, trail running, all of these things are just mentally so good for you when you're often inside working, when you're with your kids, you know, just being able to like have that too is just such a positive thing. It's been really helpful for me to find myself again after that and to be able to like to do these adventures (sense of self; gratitude).
Mike: What mental skill did you find most useful during this challenge? (i.e. Self talk, attentional flexibility, visualization)
Caite: “I think, for the rim to rim and just in general, like for my racing and even prior to racing and the sports before, it's always been about discipline and consistency for me. So even those days when you really don't want to get up early (I get up at four or five, that's my time to get in my training before work and before kids) and those days that you just aren't feeling good, you're tired or you're sore… If you just get up and do it and you're just consistent about it, it pays off in the end. And that's what I realized, like, yeah, I don't want to get up every day. Or you know, fit in however many days of training that week. But I just do it. My alarm goes off and I just get up. I don't even question it now. Of course, there's gonna be times when you're sick and things like that and you need to listen to your body, but now my alarm goes off and I get up. And visualization, I love that one too. I think that I use it for racing all the time, just trying to visualize every step of the race if I can, if I have any idea of what the course looks like.
Mike: Is there any self-talk phrase or mantra that you like to use like when you're in the moment?
Caite: Yes. They're not really that groundbreaking or earth shattering. Push hard, things like that. Just keep going… Like, you know, fucking do it… When we were out there in the canyon, we were out there for like eight hours plus. And there were definitely points along the way where we started to feel, “oh my god, we're not even all the way down the North Rim and we still have to go across the canyon and up the South Rim and our legs are already hurting…” But we felt like, “okay, what can we do?” (productive self-talk). Let's drink some electrolytes, take a gel, see how we're feeling, see what tools we have to use at this point that can make a big difference… “What can I do to try to make it a little bit better?” It's usually your brain holding you back, right? Like your body can probably keep going most times but your brain's just like thinking negatively or wanting to hold you back, you know? That’s when you do a quick reality check, like “what is going on in this moment?” (mindful moment)
Mike: What were the biggest hurdles along the way, both physically and mentally? How did you overcome them?
Caite: “One of the big things was logistics. This was a completely unsupported run, and you're going from one side of the Grand Canyon to the other. There's park services, but after October 15th they start to close all of that, so there was nowhere to stay. So we basically had to figure out how to get to the North Rim. We ended up getting a ride from St. George in Utah, and there was basically no support at that point. So it was just thinking through all those things, which added a whole layer, but it was kind of fun as well… It was definitely a mental challenge (challenge vs. threat reframe). That stuff can get in your head and throw you off, and there were honestly times when we were trying to plan it and we were like, “Is this too much? Should we just throw in the towel? Should we just do something easier? We'll just go on a surfing trip or something!” But the idea was there. And once we thought of the idea, I just couldn't let it go (fusion). And I didn't want to. And obviously, now I'm so glad that we didn't let the logistics get in the way. I think it's very similar to racing, right? Because something always, especially in triathlon, in any race, but something's bound to go wrong, right? You get a flat, you're racing in terrible conditions, and you have to figure out some way to pivot (resilience; psychological flexibility) and not let those sorts of things completely derail you… so I was really glad that we figured it out and didn't just throw in the towel and take a beach vacation or something.”
Mike: “Right there what you said is like a gold mine for mental performance work. Correct me if I'm off, but from what I'm hearing is that at that moment it was really easy to pivot. At that moment, there was what is called a “choice point” in psychology; going with the values-consistent choices. Within that choice point, you had dozens of things saying, “Hey, there's this other alternative, it'd be much more comfortable. Let's go with that.” Instead, you chose the less comfortable (embracing discomfort) route that moved you toward your values (health, growth, challenge, etc.) and fused you to the vision; a successful point-to-point challenge.”
Mike: What was most surprising or unexpected? What did this teach you?
Caite: “The terrain. From the North Rim, you descend about 8,000 feet. So you're going down on very rocky trails and it's steep. There are all these cutbacks that you're going down from the North Rim to get to the base of the canyon. So I don't think I fully appreciated just how tired my legs would be just from going down… You're a few miles in at that point and my legs were shaking so that was definitely on my mind, the thoughts that I was having then of “wow this is so tough on my legs,” and at that point you can't even see the south rim where you're going… so it was definitely a time when you needed to bring out the positive self-talk… Once you get to mile 18, between 18 and 20, I mean, it's so steep going up and your legs are already shot by that point. So yeah, I think physically it was really tough to keep going. But I mean, there's no way out… Unless you want to call the park rangers… You have to go, you have to make it out. So that was definitely the mantra we were using, “no other option.”
Mike: Who did you lean on for support during the ride and what did that look like?
Caite: “We (Dan and I) had trained together and he's a runner as well, so we'd train together and plan the trip together. When we started, we were so happy… Like kids in a candy shop happy that we had planned this trip… so happy that we made it there to the North Rim. All the things that could have gone wrong with the travel, the kids, the plan (commitment)... Once we started the run, we were just so insanely happy. We couldn't believe the beauty and it was so breathtaking, but then the pain starts to set in and we were pushing each other. We were like “we gotta keep pushing.” It was definitely a crazy, fun experience, the two of us out there.”
Mike: How did this expedition change your “why”? How did it change what is important to you?
Caite: “I still think I have the same why, which is wanting to push my limits and look for these new adventures (drive; committed-action). I'm really so happy to be involved with Dawgpatch because their mission is also personal in a way to me. I'm just happy that this could be for a greater cause, to bring attention to the mission of the Dawgpatch. I want to continue to raise awareness and be involved there. But yeah, I don't necessarily know that it changed anything, but maybe it just made me even more hungry for the next adventure. For me, I’m immediately thinking of the next thing, like what's next. And so that's just my mindset in life. It definitely is leaving me like “what's the next adventure?””
Mike: What did you learn from this expedition that you will carry forward, both in everyday life and sport related?
Caite: “Keep challenging yourself. Don't settle for the status quo. Don't settle for a beach vacation. Keep pushing…(growth-mindset). There's so much opportunity for the carry over to occur… I think it's really great for my kids to see their mom or both their parents setting a goal and accomplishing it. Having these physical goals and athletics in our lives makes it so they're like, “oh wait, I want to race now,” and they have interest in that. So I think it's just a really positive thing in that way. It’s like a message we send to them (modeling). Like, my dad ran marathons when I was growing up and I have so many memories of that. And I think it made a big impact on my life.”
Mike: After accomplishing such an extreme feat, where else do you feel you might be limiting yourself in terms of what else is possible?
Caite: “I've realized that I just want to keep pushing myself to do these new types of longer distance events and to keep finding things that challenge me. I feel that I could go more, that I could do more with the right feeling and the right training. There's definitely more there. So, yeah, it elevates your baseline almost. You're like, “okay, I did that, I feel I can do this,” (self-efficacy)... You do one race and you're like, “okay, I can do the next distance and then the next distance and then the next.” It just keeps building on itself... there's so much more potential that's there.”
Mike: “Sounds like the mastery curve (Leonard, 1991) going on in real time… that progression toward the next level, followed by the inevitable plateau there. Once you've achieved that rim to rim challenge, you hit that next mark and now you're on the plateau and within that plateau you're, you know, being a mom, but you're also planning ahead and keeping that fire lit (motivation) for what's next.
Mike: So, what’s next?
Caite: “More racing. I’ll be working and mothering, but hopefully a spring marathon, some triathlons, another half iron man. I’m working towards that full iron man, maybe an ultra, some Dawgpatch summer swims. I think longer, and more, endurance events. Still hashing out the 2024 calendar, but yeah, it's shaping up.”
Check out the full Grand Canyon Rim 2 Rim Run write-up here.